Proposed CombatRP Guide


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    Join date : 2014-09-07

    Proposed CombatRP Guide

    Post by Shanaro on Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:15 am

    I figured I'd post this only because I see a lot of confusion on any form of Combat RP, be it with another citizen, or against a fable, understand that I'm going to be adding parts to it, including melee weapons, choosing your battles, and the difference in combat level based on Ranks in the Fables.

    Part 1: Powergaming and Responding to someone's actions

                   Powergaming is a very basic rule but also seems to be commonly misconstrued and twisted to work in other peoples favor, here is an example of powergaming.

    Person 1 slams his fist into the other mans face, knocking him out instantly.

    As you can no doubt see, there are several things wrong with this man's /me.   First off, he not only 'auto-hit' the man he was attacking, he also dictated how the man would respond to the situation, now, here is a proper /me with the same move, only, no powergaming.

    Person 1 clenches his fist and throws it forward, it being aimed at the mans face, if it were to connect, there is a chance it would knock the man out.

    Much better right? Now remember, when doing anything, you don't have to put 'attempts' in front of the move, for this reason, many people would believe that the /me above is actually a powergame, but it isn't, the line 'throws it forward' signifies that the move is in motion, and has yet to actually connect to the person it is aimed at, giving the other man, time to respond with his own /me.

    Before we look at the next part of combat roleplay, let's take a look at the definition of powergaming, as shown to us by the server.

    Powergaming - Do not powergame, this means you cannot force an action that other characters must abide by. Whether it's attacking a character, picking up an item, or tying a character up you must always attempt to do so.

    Now, a common misconception is that someone who responds to anothers initial attack, and either blocks it or avoids the blow, is powergaming, because they did not attempt to do so, this is not true, understand that the man responding to anothers actions is doing just that, responding, and so long as the movement doesn't include a counter attack (In which case he would have to attempt, because at this point the man is actually aiming to interact with the other player) A man doesn't need to attempt to avoid a punch, or block it, understand, however, blocking or avoiding bullets currently in the air aimed at you is impossible, so do not attempt to avoid these.

    ALSO, remember that when avoiding or blocking, your movements have to be within reason, the most common for a typical man without combat authorizations to avoid a punch or a kick would be to jump out of the way, this should be exaggerated, and not well executed, If your attacker, however, is charging at you and tries to tackle you, he is coming from a distance, YOUR character has more time to analyze the best possible way to get out of the way of the incoming attack,

    HOWEVER, if your attackers character is within a very close proximity, you have less time to react, therefore, the closer your attacker, the less chance of being able to avoid his blow.

    When blocking, be sure that your block represents the attack, it's extremely difficult to block a strait kick with only one arm, for the sheer force would end up sending you back a few feet, if you were to block with both arms, one being out for blocking, the other to solidify the block, you'd have much more chance of keeping the block, BUT MIND YOU: Blocking powerful attacks will hurt you, your arms, or whatever you blocked with, depending on the force, will either tingle, or sting from the initial blow, if being attacked by heavy or blunt weapons, if you were to block, you'd most likely have a fractured or even broken appendage based on what you blocked with, your best bet when fighting someone with a melee weapon is to avoid, and attempt to run away, looking for help if you yourself, seem to be unarmed, here are a few examples of correct responses, as well as incorrect responses.

    Please keep this color code in mind.
    Green = Correct way to attack or respond.
    Red = Incorrect way to attack or respond.

    Person1 throws his fist at the man in front of him, attempting to connect it with his jaw.

    Person2 launches off into the air, doing a backflip before landing a safe distance away from his attacker.

    (Understand, not even Erika Skye or ANY of MY characters have ever done flips, this is unrealistic, and wastes way more energy than needed to avoid attacks, also, a typical person is usually not the most acrobatic fella.)

    Person1 throws his fist at the man in front of him, attempting to connect it with his jaw.

    Person2 see's the punch coming, quickly jumping out of the way of the incoming attack.

    (This is the right way to avoid an attack, the man saw what the other way trying to do, and instead of backflipping or something along those lines, he jumped out of the way, he didn't need to attempt because he was responding to his attacker, his actions did not and were not forced on his attacker in anyway, therefore, he didn't need to attempt to avoid such an attack)

    Now, here is an incorrect way to block, and a correct way to block

    Person1 attempts to slam his foot into the mans chest, his leg snapping out in a kick.

    Person2 Brings up his forearm, blocking it with ease.

    (Wrong, the sheer force of such an attack would break through your block, and both your chest and arm would be in pain, AND you'd be knocked back.)

    Person1 attempts to slam his foot into the mans chest, his leg snapping out in a kick.

    Person2 brings both of his arms up in front of his chest, taking a step back as the kick initially connects, the power forcing him backwards a few feet, he skids a bit before shaking his arms in pain.

    (By doing it this way, you properly calculated in force of the attack to your arms, as well as the added amount of momentum suddenly transferred to your person, which would send you back.)

    In the next parts, I'll cover the differences between long ranged combat and close quarters combat, as well as the effects of dealing with an individual armed with a melee weapon, AND counter attacks.

    Part 2: Counters, Grabs, Throws, and the difference between a average person, one auth'd in combat, and Fables

    It's come to my attention that some have trouble discerning the difference between an average person, and one auth'd in combat. As well as how far a fables abilities will get them. Now understand, to be good in combat requires you to either apply for the authorization on the forums or obtain it from an admin capable of authorizing such things. This specific perk gives your character an advantage in a fight, your possibilities for attacks as well as defensive fighting, counter attacks, grabs, ect increases dramatically based on what you have applied for, this is saying IF you've even been accepted. In this next example, I'm going to show you an initial attack, and in the two examples, I'll show you the citizens (red) initial attack, compared the the Auth'd individuals (Green) typical attack.

    Citizen clenches his fist tightly, bringing it back before shooting it forward, attempting to slam his fist into the mans stomach.

    (Now, this is a basic attack, anybody could do it, a 10 year old could do it, now let's see an individual who has combatRP auth's.)

    Citizen clenches his fist, and brings it back, rotating his body with his punch, which is shooting towards the mans face at an alarming rate, at the same time, his other fist is aimed at the mans stomach, a simultaneous blow.

    (Notice how the Auth'd individuals Roleplay is a bit more detailed, as well as experienced, this is because a Super Administrator is more likely to auth you if your roleplay is detailed and realistic.)

    Next is a fable, or anyone with supernatural ability, these are typically powerful individuals whom have had enhancements to their body, meaning, they are much stronger, faster, and durable than the average person, or even one having combat authorizations, this said, they are not invincible, and for those who roleplay right, most of these characters tend to underestimate normal people, meaning the citizen has an advantage if he can catch the Fable by surprise, which in all reality should be often unless the Fable is extremely paranoid and thinks that he is really bad despite his abilities and all humans could beat him up. Following is two examples, the first being a fable not role-playing his strengths correctly, and in fact going over the top with them, understand that powers only go so far. As usual, the poor roleplay will be marked in red.

    Citizen 1 runs forward, lunging in such a way that his right knee moves off the ground in an attempt to connect with the mans stomach, if the hit were to connect, and if the fable were to bent over, he would try a side hit into the mans temple using his other fist.

    (This man has obviously gotten authorizations to be skilled in CQC (Close Quarters Combat), and as such, his combat is very skilled, now let's watch the Fable respond in an incorrect fashion)

    Fable is hit in the stomach, not lurching forward, catching the mans fist as it attempts to slam into the his head, tighting his grip on the mans fist with his robotic hand.

    (Yea, no, this is not only a little Overpowered, but I've actually seen someone do this on the server before, the only instance in which someone wouldn't lurch forward from the kientic force of someones hit was if it was incredably weak OR the fable utilized a special fighting technique that only a few should ever know, fables while having increased strength and ability still weigh as much as they do, and as such are vulnerable to Newton's law just as much as anyone else)

    Fable is hit in his stomach, lurching forward, however he catches the motion of the punch out of the corner of his eyes, and brings his arm up for a block, before attempting to lunge forward in an attempt to pin the man to the ground.

    (Now THIS is good, not only did he take the first hit, he responding correctly with the second, and did a move in which it'd be impossible for the citizen even if he's auth'd in combat, to actually avoid or block.)

    Next is Grabs, counters, and throws. ALL of these REQUIRE Auth's to perform, they are only for experienced fighters, and one must understand physics very well to properly and realistically pull them off. These are difficult to Roleplay, as many individuals on the receiving end of a counter attack cry, and call powergaming, or they somehow manage to shift their momentum in a completely different, and rather impossible manner to avoid the grab, counter, or throw.

    Now, a counter, grab, or throw, when performed, can usually only be performed when your target has attacked first, from here, you are able to dodge the attack, and ATTEMPT to grab his wrist or shoulder, and from there, momentum will aid you in delivering a powerful throw, or perhaps a counter attack.

    UNDERSTAND, when being the victim of a counter or a throw, /me your response realistically, while it is possible to escape the grasp of a wrist grab, an arm or shoulder is impossible to escape, calculate in the fact that your character most likely did NOT see this coming, and as such, should suffer the pain or the blow your about to receive.

    The following is an example of a proper grab, which is the entrance to a counter or a throw, or maybe even a joint lock (More on those in the next part). Please remember, Red means the person had responded incorrectly, while green means he did.

    Person1 closes his hand into a fist, bringing it back before shooting it forward, trying to connect it to the mans face.

    Person2 see's the punch coming, managing to step to the side, his left hand shoots forward in an attempt to grab hold of the mans forearm, if successful, the man would try to push the in-motion arm to the side while delivering a punch of his own to the mans face.

    (This man was able to first dodge the blow, now he is ATTEMPTING to grab hold of the mans forearm to deliver a blow to the face, understand, the way he had pushed your arm to the side makes it near impossible to successfully block or avoid the punch coming to your head.)

    Person1 stops his punch before the man could grab his arm

    (WRONG, Your in motion, and based on the /me, bringing your fist back before shooting it forward with such force would be very hard to stop, please calculate in momentum, your in motion, and you shifting that motion will prove rather difficult.)

    Now, let's see that again, with person1 responding correctly to the situation.

    Person1 closes his hand into a fist, bringing it back before shooting it forward, trying to connect it to the mans face.

    Person2 see's the punch coming, managing to step to the side, his left hand shoots forward in an attempt to grab hold of the mans forearm, if sucsessful, the man would try to push the in-motion arm to the side while delivering a punch of his own to the mans face.

    Person1's eyes widen as his punch is diverted, he sees the punch headed towards his face, but is unable to do anything, his head whips back from the force of the connected punch, a small groan of pain escaping the mans lips.

    Miscellaneous Notes

    The second of the two most important aspects, the defense is a result of the attack, and as such, comes second. Here's a few basic tips on the subject.
    First of all, as with above, this has been said many times and will be said here again, don't avoid everything that comes your character's way. It's unrealistic to dodge everything, because quite simply, there are things that should be unavoidable, even if your character is the super-mega-god-of-all-things-combat-oriented-and-related. 
    Second of all, bear in mind your own fighting style when trying to block. If blocking an attack will make it so that you cannot attack in return, should you block, or perhaps dodge it? If you move a bit to the side and still get hit by the attack, will that put you in a good position to deliver a very painful strike? Keep those things in mind when defending your character, they add another layer of strategy to your actions.

    Always remember, when in melee combat, it isn't easy for a spellcaster to get those spells cast. Being distracted by an opponent with a big sword or gun can and does make things difficult when trying to send off those somatic components and those words of magick.
    When using magic in battle, there are two possible paths.
    -One path is to describe vividly what the spell does and how it is being cast. I prefer this path in most instances, because it is more visually effective and creates a sense of realism. Possible ways of enhancing this aspect are using specific languages for your character to chant in if not actual words, describing what sorts of gestures are made, and naming what sorts of material components your spell is using. When using spells without flashy visual effects, like a Charm spell or something of that nature, always remember to PM the player of your target, otherwise, don't be surprised if you have a confused opponent.
    -The other path is simpler. Just announce that you are casting a spell and name the basic description of the spell right off. There are times when using this path is best, such as a large scale battle where typing time is of the essence and you're already rushing to get your actions in just to keep up with your opponents. But in general, the first method is the best method, simply because of the more vivid visualization that it creates.

    Summoned Creatures and Other fables in combat:
    When dealing with summoned creatures and other fables, it's best to look at their source to know how best to deal with them. If a creature is summoned as a result of a spell, then that falls under dealing with a spell, and should be treated as such. When it comes to called monsters or created ones [ie, undead, called fiends, or friends], again, treat them as individuals under the direction of the player who brought them there.
    -This means, among other things:
    --- Autodispelling is not a good thing. The player who summoned the creature chooses when his spell ends, not you. As with in the Spellcasting section, phrase the dispel attempts as an open ended phrase; leave room for them to decide or potentially counter, however a dispell is much easier to perform than maintaining an anchor, so unless a mage is VERY gifted and has counter measures, dispell attempts should be taken very seriously and hard to counter
    --- Auto-hits are still as unfair as they are otherwise.

    Taking Damage and Showing Damage:
    This one is incredibly important. I've covered this one on in other servers, so I'll give it another spotlight here. When a character is stricken, it will affect their ability to perform in battle. Whether you like it or not, that's the nature of physiology, and yes, I'm bringing science into a fantasy setting, but that's necisarry in this case. When someone's arm is injured, it doesn't function as strongly, if at all. When someone's leg is damaged, it will slow their movement. If someone's back is broken, they aren't going to moving much. Think logically.

    -Show a little blood, no one is bullet proof and even vampires have blood flow to an extent, so make sure to show injury in this manner.
    -Broken limbs can be a good thing. An injury of this sort can be a great way to roleplay the aftermeth, especially with a broken leg that causes your character to limp for a while. Anything that opens up roleplaying opportunities is a good thing in my book.
    Example of what NOT to do:
    Look at Monty Python and the Holy Grail, the scene with the Black Knight. "It's just a flesh wound!"

    Beginning the Battle:
    This is an aspect that can be somewhat difficult at times, and at other times, quite simple.
    -In the more simple instances, a character goes forth and strikes, thus beginning the fight and it moves along from there. As always, it's best to ask permission of the other player as to whether or not a fight is to happen, as it is as much their choice as it is yours as to whether or not a combat will happen, and as always, if one declines, then be sensitive to that persons request, maybe they can't focus on combatRP or have to go soon to where combatRP isn't exactly something they can actually get into at that time.
    -The other extreme is when a fight is difficult to start up. This can happen for any number of reasons, from a character being too busy to take part in the battle at the time, to a character already being injured from an impromptu fight of their own and the player not wishing to let their character die as a result of it. The best way to handle this sort of situation is to talk to the other individual, and attempt to come to a sensible conclusion instead of just lolmorecombat.

    Ending the Battle:
    Similar to starting a fight, this can be tricky if not done right. Often enough to be a generalization, but not a rule by any means, players' pride can become an obstacle to finishing a fight as well as it could be. Whether this is through a player being unwilling to let their character lose or a player who refuses to give in when beaten, this can be one of the more frustrating occurrences in a fight. If this happens to you and your characters, there are a few ways to deal with it.
    Alternatively, some fights are easy to handle the ending for. If a character is to die, select the means of death in advance of the death blow, that way it can be signaled for when the time comes, this makes things go more smoothly. If both are to survive, one can just as easily walk away to fight again later. Whether this is done with a swearing of vengeance to be taken later or a wounded warrior leaving to heal their injuries, this is a perfectly viable option in nearly all cases.
    -With a Stubborn Player/Character: 
    --If your character has clearly shown the stubborn opponent up by skill and ability, they might take pity on the other. This doesn't always work, but if it is possible, there are a few roleplaying opportunities that can come of it. Perhaps the clearly victorious character would decide that the stubborn personality of the other combatant is something that could be cultivated into a better warrior? This could not only allow the fight to end without too much frustration, but it could provide a solid building point for a partial storyline, which is always a good thing. Especially if the other player has shown to be skilled and capable otherwise, this sort of finish could even help to wear down that stubborn streak. Not all characters would be willing to do this, but those that would can make a good example from this course of action.
    --If a peaceable solution isn't possible, always remember, there's nothing wrong with walking away as long as it is done reasonably and without direct OOC rudeness. Have your character get a bit frustrated, realizing that they are wasting their time and have better things to do than continue a pointless fight. This won't make the character a coward, it makes them intelligent. There's no shame in knowing when to walk away. Of course, some characters would never do this, which is certainly alright.
    --If these don't suit your character, perhaps you could have another character, one of yours or one of an online friend's, step in and take your character away from the battle. This works best with exceedingly stubborn characters who would never walk away from an unfinished fight, as it gives them a way to leave without their pride being too battered in the process.
    --If none of those options work, have your character offer the fight as a draw. This doesn't always work in a true battle, but there's still a chance for it.

    Lastly, Know When To Stay Out of Other Players' Business:
    That's right, another of my old points. There are times when you can feel free to help out your friends in battle, such as when you ask them and their opponents and all parties give permission, but their are also times where you should just stay out of it. Don't interfere with other characters' storylines if they haven't given you permission to do so, it's just good manners.
    I will however say that there is one time when interfering without permission of both parties is alright is when one character is about to die and that player asks you to save their character. I see this as being alright, especially if the character on the brink of death has no means of returning from the afterlife.

    Seriously, many people will simply jump into a combat situation with no context then bitch when they get their ass handed to them, stay out of it if you don't know the whole story or suffer the consequences, nobody needs another hero and often those kind of whiteknights are only gonna get slaughtered.

    I'll be adding more fable specific combat later, such as demons, vampires, and lycans, angels even, however for the mean time a fable needs to RP their weight correctly, I don't care how strong you are if you're hit with a few bullets your not just gonna stand there like superman, you're going to be blown back by the kinetic force, Newtons law is something that NEEDS to be constantly observed in combat, and I'll call people out on their shit when they aren't being realistic.
    Bourneco - Retired

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    Re: Proposed CombatRP Guide

    Post by Bourneco - Retired on Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:25 am

    One problem with this: fables have an extremely high reaction time, meaning they could, theoretically, easily dodge a fist or, if skilled enough (Elder+ for Vampires, Beta+ for Werewolves (?)) could, theoretically, dodge a low-caliber bullet. You have to remember what you're dealing with here. Extremely strong supernatural beings created by the god(s) of man. Werewolves also have a much heavier bone-density, making them heavier in general. Vampires excel in agility, Werewolves excel in strengths, brutality and feral-senses.

    Character list incoming!

    Cisilia 'Wolf' Longbird | Lycanthrope Sentinel | "Your hopes have become my burden. I will find my own liberation." |

    Ofc. Daniel Anvil | Human Cop | "Fockin'... piecea... shite.." |

    Lila 'Crimson Rose' Anvil | Augustine Vampire (Adept.) | "Scathing eyes ask that we be symmetrical, one sided and easily processed. Yet every misshapen spark's unseen beauty is greater than it's would-be judgement." |

    'Devil' | Human Anti-Fable | "I'm going to make you SQUEAAAAAAAAAAAAL monster!" |

    Two things are infinite: the universe, and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the Universe. - A. Einstein.
    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds - A. Einstein.
    Fuzzy Wolfy

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    Re: Proposed CombatRP Guide

    Post by Fuzzy Wolfy on Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:46 am

    One thing I'd like to add, relating to Bourneco's statement as well;

    Vampires and Lycans are superior in terms of agility and strength respectively, yes, but they aren't the incredible Hulk or the Flash. I say this because I've seen a few instances of vamps and lycans completely avoid situations where they are held up at gun point - sometimes by two separate gun-toting individuals, and yet they simply emote either running to the side or disappearing in a blur.

    That, I just hate to see. It's the reason FEAR was razed to the ground. When someone can just jog away from someone holding you at gunpoint, the Fear RP grinds to a screeching halt and consequences are thrown out the window because - hey, you're a Fable, who cares, you'll probably win.

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    Re: Proposed CombatRP Guide

    Post by Shanaro on Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:50 am

    Fables are able to react to everything much faster, no fable with the exception of perhaps a master augustine or nosferatu would be able to dodge low caliber bullets, while werewolves might bulk up a bit, they're still vulnerable to the laws of motion, every action has an equal and oppisite reaction, so if a werewolf gets punched with almost 1000lbs of force (A typical, skilled combatant can deliver that much impact) The werewolf is still going to get hit head, and by extension, his body knocked the fuck back.

    Fables aren't to be messed with of course, and you almost would never want to take one on in hand to hand combat for this reason, but they aren't complete tanks and are still vulnerable to the laws of physics.

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    Re: Proposed CombatRP Guide

    Post by Nemesis™ on Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:48 pm

    Pixie Replacement wrote:I will just say, perhaps the only vampire on the server that could really move away fast enough from Fuzzy's situation would be Orfeo, any other don't move that fast that someone couldn't shoot them in the time.
     Physically, yes, but high-level Dremors should be able to mentally distort perceptions well enough to evade a targeted area of one gunman. Since perception is something the brain calculates--- a dremor vampire (high ranking, of course), should be able to distort that perception so that they target an area that the vampire is not. 

    Also, a human can run away from bullets... unless they're trained well enough, so I think that vampires would be a bit better off at fleeing away, don't sell 'em short, now, I was in a scenario where an entire hallway was flooded with vervaine rounds---so naturally, even though Amun is a master, he was shot many times and incapacitated.


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    Re: Proposed CombatRP Guide

    Post by Kurogane on Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:23 pm

    This is actually a pretty good guide to combative roleplay. Hurrah! Hopefully people will actually follow it.

    Regarding Vampires Dodging Bullets,

    Honestly, I think a decent portion of the problem is the fact that nobody seems to be in a consensus as to what Vampires and Werewolves can actually do. Someone told me that Vampire's at a point can move so fast they're blurry, others say diffferent.

    I don't really think that Vampire's should be able to pull a Matrix dodge regardless of their level, but it's also relatively difficult to hit a moving human target...If a Vampire were to start running I doubt any human would be able to get a track on them to be able to shoot them. Vampire's can already withstand alot of damage, have rapid healing, and can take multiple bullets -- it just seems silly to give them the ability to -dodge- bullets on top of that.

    The easiest way for a Vampire to deal with bullets would be to either a) Flee immediately when confronted with them or b) Immediately Aggress.

    The only instance where Immediately Aggressing would not be practical for avoiding being shot is if you are in a narrow space or are already close to the opponent. Even if Vampire's cannot go from standing to dodging bullets like Neo, if they advance on a target rapidly while zig-zagging it is hard to believe that the Human with the gun would be able to keep a steady track on the Vampire, nevermind the fact that the Vampire would be able to close the distance far quicker than a human would be and theoretically would be capable of disarming his opponent. Obviously this works less with multiple opponents, and doesn't work at all in an enclosed space, but it would still be an effective way to minimize the damage to yourself while neutralizing a threat -- it also realistically plays to the Vampire's strength without having them walking around in full body armor with assault rifles. A moving target is hard to hit, a target moving erratically and rapidly advancing on you would not only be nerve racking it would also be difficult to hit...It also does not take much pressure to break a human bone, so a Vampire should theoretically be able to rapidly disarm a single attacker if they are able to get ahold of the arm.

    Obvious counters to that?

    -Any sort of UV light emitter.

    You can counter the Vampire's strengths by being smart and playing to your own strengths. The spread of the buckshot would provide a conical area denial to the Vampire's advance, Flashbangs would have obvious repercussions, and UV Light would burn like a bitch. So while the Vampire has the capability to disarm a human via its natural abilities, a human should have the necessary gadgets to counter the Vampire's natural abilities.

    Or at least that is how I interpreted the game's design to go. From what I've read and heard, Vampire's mostly just opted to use assault rifles and body armor themselves and have shoot outs with their enemies. xD

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    Re: Proposed CombatRP Guide

    Post by Shanaro on Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:04 pm

    I wrote the vampire guide for the server to resolve the issues of what people think vampires can and can't do, I also co-own vampires and will be monitoring them closely, I gave actual statistics in what a vampire can do based on class and rank, so really the only issue with vampires is that people need to be told that there IS actually lore on them for reference now.

    There actually aren't a lot of people who RP on the server who regularly visit the forums, so some people will have to catch up and be informed.

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    Re: Proposed CombatRP Guide

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