Why was I banned?

Nah, brah. Using a ban as justification for a ban is circular logic. You can't type your way out of a literal fallacy. 

The person who banned me was Tutt. If you're so invested in this, go ask him. Otherwise, I'd like to be unbanned please.

tofu wrote:Nah, brah. Using a ban as justification for a ban is circular logic. You can't type your way out of a literal fallacy. 

The person who banned me was Tutt. If you're so invested in this, go ask him. Otherwise, I'd like to be unbanned please.

There is no "using a ban as a justification for a ban".

The chances of your innocence in the affair are slim to relatively none, from sheer past experience. Ergo, you remain banned until the administrators are able to figure out what you did to get banned for in the first place. There is no sense in unbanning you without investigation. 

You are already banned, you are trying to get unbanned. So far all you are doing is demanding you be unbanned off your word alone.

Circular Reasoning = "A is true because B is true; B is true because A is true."


You are banned. That is a fact. You should not be unbanned until they figure out why you were banned in the first place.


That is not circular reasoning. That is just simple investigative reasoning. 


Circular reason would be more akin to "You deserve to be banned because you are banned because you deserve to be banned" A is true because B is true, B is true because A is true.


Not "You are banned so you should not be unbanned until they actually investigate why you were initially banned."

Stop trying to look smart. 

More accurately, circular logic would look more like:

"You are banned, because you deserved it."

"Therefore, you are banned because you deserved it."

You may have been banned because you deserved it, but neither statement validates the other.

Well, that's not a counterexample of circular reasoning, but another example of it.  The one at hand being "why is he banned? Because he is banned". 

Circular reasoning or not, the point you're making is tangential to the pertinent issue: my actual transgressions. Maybe you didn't notice, but the title of this thread is "why am I banned?" It's a question, not a declaration of innocence. I gave the full story in the OP, including what may have been considered slight enough to ban me. The admin that banned me, Tutt/Ashes, hasn't come forward because he knows he permad me for no reason and is trying to save face. Again, if you're so invested in this case, drag him into this thread.


Could you calm down a little and stop with the insulting jabs like "trying to sound smart"? I'm sure I could say the same to you.

E: your "past experiences" have no relevance either if they're not about me.

you guys are taking this too seriously lol

tofu wrote:Well, that's not a counterexample of circular reasoning, but another example of it.  The one at hand being "why is he banned? Because he is banned". 

Circular reasoning or not, the point you're making is tangential to the pertinent issue: my actual transgressions. Maybe you didn't notice, but the title of this thread is "why am I banned?" It's a question, not a declaration of innocence. I gave the full story in the OP, including what may have been considered slight enough to ban me. The admin that banned me, Tutt/Ashes, hasn't come forward because he knows he permad me for no reason and is trying to save face. Again, if you're so invested in this case, drag him into this thread.


Could you calm down a little and stop with the insulting jabs like "trying to sound smart"? I'm sure I could say the same to you.

E: your "past experiences" have no relevance either if they're not about me.

Except I never said why you should be banned. I said it should be investigate as to why you were banned before someone just unbanned you. Way to totally miss the point.

Also, from what little I know of Tutt, he doesn't even go to the forums that often, so I doubt he has even seen this topic...Furthermore, nobody even knows who you -are- on Steam so even if he did, I sincerely doubt he would even know who you were especially considering as you didn't mention who banned you in the first place until just now.

This is great and all, and I have to admit that both sides do have valid points in their arguments, however~

Without an admin coming forward to even explain the reasoning behind the ban, nor to confirm that the ban in question was intended to be permanent, we're prosecuting someone with no proof and no testimony from anyone directly involved.

And, y'know what? That ain't cool.

I support the idea of maintaining the ban until someone comes forth, be it Tutt or another admin who can accurately explain why tofu should remain banned, however none have despite a few invitations to do so.

At some point, considering the lack of outrage towards Tofu's supposed actions, it has to be assumed that the reason for his ban were not severe enough to be permanent... Hell, I was there, and no one complained about him while we we're on.

So uhh-... Yeah. Can we actually get Tutt involved or can we call it a day and not get hung up with philosophical banter on crime and punishment despite the lack of any substantial evidence?

I dont know what they're talking about but my brain is hurting...

Unban the man for god sake, if he was truly bad we'd know he was already. If I was Tofu and I was in his situation, I would be royally fucking pissed myself honestly. I'd be surprised if he hasn't already given up on this place because of the massive amount of time it's taking for action to be taken.

Holy shit the quoting system on this forum is impossible to use.

Kurogane wrote:Except I never said why you should be banned. I said it should be investigate as to why you were banned before someone just unbanned you. Way to totally miss the point.

Also, from what little I know of Tutt, he doesn't even go to the forums that often, so I doubt he has even seen this topic...Furthermore, nobody even knows who you -are- on Steam so even if he did, I sincerely doubt he would even know who you were especially considering as you didn't mention who banned you in the first place until just now.

You have said multiple times that my ban justifies my ban until someone comes forward. The point of investigation you're trying to hard to make is the thread's very title and the inquisition posed in the OP. You know, the one on the top of the screen? "Why was I banned?"

Tutt knows who I am.

Holy shit I did not know this thread was here due to how hard it is to use these forums.

Anyway, I’m not sure I’m the one that permanently banned you, toast. I’m fairly certain I put a 30 instead of a plain old 0 unless I missed the three. And even if I did, after the first kick and volley of insults you gave me didn’t make me think you were here seriously, especially when you ran around pretending this was dark rp and we’ve had a few people from TnB here to troll/damage whatever work has been done to make it more enjoyable for whoever fancies the server.

While I won’t try to force the ban (even if it somehow ended up being permanent and not just 30 minutes/hours) I won’t lift it myself either without the other admins weighing in.

Vampyr wrote:You didn't do anything worthy of a permaban but I need to save face.

Oh.

Weird how I was the one being deathmatched and I got banned for it, though, huh? Wonder why I got upset when I was punished for others misbehaving toward me.

I'm not "from" TnB, and even if I was, persecuting new players interested in roleplaying on your server sure is one masochistic way to assure there's no long term survival of this project, isn't it?

tofu wrote:

Vampyr wrote:You didn't do anything worthy of a permaban but I need to save face.

Oh.

Weird how I was the one being deathmatched and I got banned for it, though, huh? Wonder why I got upset when I was punished for others misbehaving toward me.

I'm not "from" TnB, and even if I was, persecuting new players interested in roleplaying on your server sure is one masochistic way to assure there's no long term survival of this project, isn't it?

Like I said, I don’t think I permanently banned you because I do recall banning you for a small amount of time before you returned, and if I did it was probably a mistake. I stand by what I said, I don’t think you’re here to be serious in the least given the gooc performance. And referring to what I said before, I won’t make a choice on the matter until the other administrators that have seen this thread weigh in. Being aggressive about it won’t make things go any faster, nor will taking shots at someone who is trying to be honest and is met with hostility. I‘m sorry that it took me this long to actually notice your thread seeing as I barely check these forums given how 1990‘s they feel.

Well, you did permaban me, as evidenced by the fact that you banned me permanently and I am now permanently banned. I'm not sure how you can deny that. 

Right now you're telling me that you banned me because I made jokes in the OOC channel while the whole server was DMing each other.

If you fucked up, you should rectify that.

I’m just saying I don’t think I did, and if I -did- do it (which part of me doubts) it was by mistake. All I recall doing is kicking you (which lead to a small slew of insults, as mentioned before) the mentioned 30 (which translated to 30 seconds in NS for some reason) from before. And I lit people on fire for dming eachother or spawned NPC's on them to keep them busy.

So why aren't you unbanning me?

I plan on talking to the other two administrators that haven't seen this thread to see if they had a hand in it. So again, just give me time to sort this. Then I'll also have to speak with the owner.

Much ado about nothing.

E: I just realized you've been saying I insulted you after you kicked me. I told you to fuck off after you permabanned me. I didn't say a word to you after the kick except a GOOC: "ooc: why was i kicked".

You told me to F off after a kick, then the thirty seconder came into play and then apparently you were permabanned. That's how I recall it, honestly.

No, you permabanned me right after kicking me. The screenshot earlier in the thread is the message I recieved upon my second disconnection. I'm not sure why you're lying about it now other than to save face. This is one of those situations where it's best to swallow your pride and admit you were wrong rather than hide behind a flimsy lie.

Like I said, I never did /modban 0 onto you. And trust me if I had any pride I'd be insulting you for saying I'm trying to save face when I've done nothing and or don't recall everything that transpired.

Edit: Also, toast it’s funny how you’re trying to say I did it when Kaze is the one that banned you for the following reasons: Extremely mingey/trollish behavior and refusal to get serious when requested while we were sorting out a map change issue.

Starting to think you knew it wasn’t me and you wanted to see how far I’d go with this. Ah well.

Yeah, I remember you toast.

Your ban's not being lifted. You had plenty of chances when we warned you and you decided to ignore them all.

Find somewhere else to play and try to be nicer about it.